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PocketQuake @ 15FPS


PocketQuake @ 15FPS

Postby Moose or Chuck » Feb 24, 2001 @ 7:17pm

Alright. 999, before you get after for starting a flame (:)), please realize that I really do want a serious, technical answer for this. <br>On my PocketPC (E-125 @ 180MHz) Doom4CE runs at an easy 32+ FPS. I am wondering why Quake won't be able to make it atleast to 15FPS.<br>I realize there are MANY differences in the engines. Particle effects, slanted/varying/floating terrain with vertexes, water, filters, 3D Character models are all examples. <br>But is Doom 2D and Quake 3D for these simple reasons? Some people have argued that Doom uses stretched bitmaps (or textures, whatever) to create a psuedo 3D view. I believe this to be false. Number one, the map editor creates corridors and so forther in x,y, and z. Number two, the screen doesn't even RESEMBLE the MODE-7 effect, popularized with the SuperNES, that does exaclty what is described by these people. <br>What I don't understand is, if Quake only has 2 times as many polygons, some 3D Characters, and particles effects, why it can't run at atleast 10FPS. Can someone please teach me more about this so my arse can be 'in the know.' I'm trying to get into programming and want to know as much as possible. As a side note, I'd like to know any good programming books specificly for WinCE 3.0 and the Game API for a beginner.<br>Last modification: Moose Master - 02/24/01 at 16:17:53
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Re: PocketQuake @ 15FPS

Postby cookie319 » Feb 24, 2001 @ 7:40pm

hmm.. quake only has two times the number of polygons?.. kinda hard to believe.. I'd imagine atleast a double digit multiplier.<br><br>Using 2d sprites vs 3d characters is a major major performance hit, is it not??<br><br>quake does far more complex rendering than doom2. I'm not sure.. but does it also swap polygons to create animations?<br><br>too bad quake isn't quite playable. If only duke3d source was released. It's a lot more fun than doom and its bound to be pretty close in terms of fps.
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Re: PocketQuake @ 15FPS

Postby 999 » Feb 24, 2001 @ 8:31pm

Killzat had a brilliant explanation on the differences between the two engines.<br><br>Perhaps someone can dig it up in the Quake post on brighthand.<br><br>Anyhow, he surmized why Doom can hit the frame rates it does as opposed to Quake.<br><br>
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Re: PocketQuake @ 15FPS

Postby Moose or Chuck » Feb 24, 2001 @ 9:19pm

Thanks 999. I'll look on Brighthand.
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Re: PocketQuake @ 15FPS

Postby Dan East » Feb 24, 2001 @ 10:34pm

Fixed Point Math, Fixed Point Math, Fixed Point Math, Fixed Point Math, Fixed Point Math!<br><br>Dan East
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Re: PocketQuake @ 15FPS

Postby AlphaFox » Feb 24, 2001 @ 11:02pm

Dan:<br>LOL
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Re: PocketQuake @ 15FPS

Postby killzat - Mark » Feb 25, 2001 @ 6:06am

Hehe FPM will only take you so far Dan =).<br><br>There's no way I'm going to type that whole Doom vs Quake thing out again, I just got so annoyed with that question - I mean even an idiot should know the answer =) - sorry that was out of order.<br><br>Anyway in short, Doom is NOT 3D; it's perspective 2D. A simple way of explaining is you take a bitmap and then another and slide them in at angles. That's why looking up in the original Doom caused warping, because you're not looking in 3D, it's 2D.<br><br>Note that OpenGL versions of Doom have been converted to polygons and so the same principals do not apply. I reckon somebody should allow MD2 (quake/quake2 model) files in Doom for the PPC =), if only!<br><br>Now Quake is true 3D, which means it uses polygons (3 Dimensional Blocks), this is nothing like the math involved calculating doom, which is just one big picture. Not only that but Quake has dynamic lighting and lightmaps, all of which are huge math burdens.<br><br>The math required to calculate the 3D, lighting, models and animation in Quake is compared to Doom (just a picture) - huge. The other key problem you have is that PocketPCs weren't designed for this kind of task, so as Dan may have noticed, they use a lot of tricks to do less-used things. The fact they have a technically emulated FPU core is one example, but FPM gets around 'some' of this.<br><br>There's no reason iPAQ's can't have Quake playing at maybe 10-14FPS (standard timerefresh we all use at start point), but going further might be difficult without killing some features. Remember that 10-14FPS would be perfect for Quake.<br><br>If it gets any higher then great, but the CPU still has a cut off point and there's only so much it can handle. Casio should eventually get to about iPaq 001 release speed, can't see them getting higher.<br><br>As I said, PowerVR have a mobile 3D CPU coming out and the new MIPs & ARM 400Mhz CPU's will be upon us by years end/early 2002. It's a wonderful time to be dabbling with PocketPC's, bet you're glad you never got a PalmPilot =). PocketPCs will be the gamers choice, they could even kill the GameBoy Advance if enough software comes out.
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Re: PocketQuake @ 15FPS

Postby Dr. Phat » Feb 25, 2001 @ 7:44am

LIKE PONG!
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Re: PocketQuake @ 15FPS

Postby Moose or Chuck » Feb 25, 2001 @ 8:24am

Alright, what exactly were .001 speeds? Because my Casio makes it to 2.5 FPS on timerefresh, and Carpediem last night said he made a few more optimizations that brought it to 2.8.<br><br>Argh! No one knows a good programming book?!?
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Re: PocketQuake @ 15FPS

Postby CARPEDIEM » Feb 25, 2001 @ 10:14am

Moose, if you want to learn wince programming, then just learn how to use Microsoft Visual C++<br>You can learn MFC or the other standard way of making Windows applications (harder).<br>So almost everything you learn in VC++ you will be able to use in your PocketPC using eVC++.<br><br>Hey, i've just started using Embedded visual c++ a month ago, and i had almost no knowledge of Visual C++, I just learned C++ by myself and everything seemed much easier. But i got the same "overwhelmed feeling" that Visual C++ gives you the first time you try to learn it.<br><br>
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Re: PocketQuake @ 15FPS

Postby Moose or Chuck » Feb 25, 2001 @ 2:45pm

Alright carmpediem, answer me ONE thing.....<br>What does HWND do ;D
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Re: PocketQuake @ 15FPS

Postby CARPEDIEM » Feb 25, 2001 @ 11:46pm

I already answered that.<br>I really mean you should start with visual basic, you can do lots of things with it and you get a nice idea of how to think when programming.
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Re: PocketQuake @ 15FPS

Postby Moose or Chuck » Feb 26, 2001 @ 3:00pm

Ya, I've programmed in some of the other cheap languages, like the game programmer's kit. Dumb stuff like that. I've got the method down, I don't have a clue about the commands though.
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Re: PocketQuake @ 15FPS

Postby Dr. Phat » Feb 26, 2001 @ 3:22pm

Uh huh... that's what they all say Moose.  Like me, except for with Java (God I hate Java, why is it so painful?)
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Re: PocketQuake @ 15FPS

Postby Tim_Reeves » Feb 26, 2001 @ 10:22pm

Java is one of my favorite types of brews...oh wait a second...This isnt Starbucks!!!<br><br>~Pause for Laughter~<br><br>Oh come on! Im not allowed to make one programming joke?! ;)
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