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Jornada 548 or iPAQ 3650?


Jornada 548 or iPAQ 3650?

Postby Peter Milliron » Apr 7, 2001 @ 7:26am

I am a current Visor user but am strongly considering the move to a Pocket PC - for all the reasons you can imagine.  <br><br>All the research I've done suggests the Jornada 548 and iPAQ 3650 are the two best choices (with the Cassiopiea E-125 coming in third).<br><br>In many ways the iPAQ seems to be the clear favorite of most folks, but I keep coming back to the Jornada because of a CF slot being built right into it (and because I think it looks just a tad cooler).  Plus, it seems like I can snag a Jornada for a fair amount less than the iPAQ.<br><br>So, oh wise ones, what should I be considering that I've missed so far?  Does one have a tremendously better color display?  Or run a buttload faster?  Or have batteries that last twice as long as the other?<br><br>Thanks for your help!<br><br>Peter
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Re: Jornada 548 or iPAQ 3650?

Postby Dan East » Apr 7, 2001 @ 8:41am

Boy, you're going to get some strong responses about the E-125 not being as good as the Jornada... :)<br><br>Dan East
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Re: Jornada 548 or iPAQ 3650?

Postby Peter Milliron » Apr 7, 2001 @ 8:57am

Oh great.  My first post here and already a social faux pas!<br><br>Peter
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Re: Jornada 548 or iPAQ 3650?

Postby Moose or Chuck » Apr 7, 2001 @ 9:11am

Lol.. What makes you think the Jornada 548 is better than a Casio? The fact that you have 27 less MHz on the Jornada, or maybe it's the smaller screen? How about the incompatable processor, or the poor third party support? The choice is between a Casio E-125 and iPaq H3635. The iPaq is faster and has the most third party products, but by only a small margin. If you can find an iPaq, go with it, jump on the thing as soon as possible. You'll be glad you did. But don't be hesitant to go with the E-125 if you can't find an iPaq that's in stock or relativily inexpensive. iPaq is the best, E-125 is a close, close second.
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Re: Jornada 548 or iPAQ 3650?

Postby Moose or Chuck » Apr 7, 2001 @ 9:25am

there is not one good thing about the Jornada, except its really good at being crappy, the ipaq has lame little bugs like dust behind the screen, and you can only press one button at a time on the pad. Casio has none of these things. It make be a fraction slower, but i have yet to see a gamee that required more than 150mhz. O ya you can overclock the casio to 203.6 mhz anyways.
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Re: Jornada 548 or iPAQ 3650?

Postby Peter » Apr 7, 2001 @ 11:16am

Okay, so I'm paying for my flippant remark in my first note!  I'll put the E-125 back in the running.  <br><br>chuck = it sounds like you're saying that for games, the E-125 is the best choice.  It's fast enough and you can press more than one button at a time.  Am I on track?<br><br>Between these three, is the iPAQ consistently faster than the other two?  Or is it not so noticeable to the untrained eye?<br><br>Also, from what I'm gathering, it sounds like the iPaq is tough to find and that I may have to pay a premium for it.  The E-125 may be the better value - and easier to find.  <br><br>Thanks for your help.  And patience . . .<br><br>Peter<br><br>
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Re: Jornada 548 or iPAQ 3650?

Postby Moose or Chuck » Apr 7, 2001 @ 11:41am

well i was at Best buy today, and the e-125 was 50 bux off at 499 instead of 550. just thought i'd give u  a good start. The ipaq is readly avaible now, but yes the e-125 imho is better for gaming.  I   don't believe there is much difference in the speed noticably unless you run the GAPI benchmark. Also i don't think there is much difference in any of them when using it for other than games, unless you are trying to run WMP while doing other things, then i believe the Jornada would do considerably worse than the others because its lack of processing power.<br><br><br>----------------------------<br>look guys i'm being helpful ;-)
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Re: Jornada 548 or iPAQ 3650?

Postby Moose or Chuck » Apr 7, 2001 @ 8:55pm

The E-125 is better for most things, not just games. The larger screen (in physical size) makes it easier to write on and read text from. It comes with a built in CF Port, which you can buy an adaptor to allow PC Cards as well. The devices are only noticeably faster in certain applications, but only by 25% faster (Casio = 7.5 FPS, iPaq = 10 FPS in PocketQuake, but still VERY playable). The Casio excels in basically everything other than PocketQuake. I'd personally go with the Casio, atleast until iPaq brings out their new 400MHz PocketPCs near Christmas time.
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Re: Jornada 548 or iPAQ 3650?

Postby Peter » Apr 8, 2001 @ 12:46am

I like the idea of a built in CF port since I have a few CF modules for my digital camera.  For those of you that use them, how awkward is the sleeve (or whatever you call it) for the iPAQ?<br><br>I know I'll play games, so speed will be important and it sounds like many of you find the E-125 to be the clear leader with the iPAQ coming in second.  Right?<br><br>Also, just for fun I went to EBay today and snagged some info on recent auctions for the J548, E-125 and iPAQ 3650/3630.  Although it may not be statistically sound, I looked at the most recent 20 sales of NEW units (and in iPAQs case, only the "next generation" models.)  I didn't include sales where "extras" were included, so as to try and compare "apples to apples."  I also looked to see how many used models were sold during that same period.  Here's what I found:<br><br>Jornada 548<br>The average final auction price was just under $400 ($398.67).  In the same period that these sales occurred (going back about a week and a half), only one used model appears to have been sold - for $350.  Also, there are five pages of auctions of J548s and related products, going back to March 18th.<br><br><br>Cassiopeia E-125<br>The average final auction price was just under $450 ($445.43).  In the same period that these sales occurred (going back roughly two weeks), nine used models appear to have been sold - at an average price of just under $400 ($395.78).  Also, there are two pages of auctions of E-125s and related products, going back to March 18th.<br><br>iPAQ 3650<br>The average final auction price was just over $500 ($503.52).  In the same period that these sales occurred (going back less than a week), four used models appear to have been sold - at an average price of just under $400 ($391.25).  Also, there are twelve pages of auctions of iPAQ 3650s and related products, going back to March 18th.<br><br>I'll let you draw your own conclusions (although I'd love to hear them).  Helpful?  Interesting?  Complete waste of time?  Let me stress that while I was relatively careful, I only spent about 30 minutes on this.  So, your mileage may vary . . .<br><br>Peter<br>
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Re: Jornada 548 or iPAQ 3650?

Postby Moose or Chuck » Apr 8, 2001 @ 4:51am

I hate trying to tell people why one PPC is better than the other, because it's really not. The sleeve on the iPaq makes the device 40% deeper than a Casio with CF built in. The E-125 has a crystal clear 16Bit TFT screen, the iPaq has a 12Bit TFT screen, not as good looking. The iPaq has a faster processor, but little is accomplished by this, as most games currently available could run on a 66MHz machine. I like my E-125. I guess the newest iPaq H3635 's have less problems, but maybe not. I wouldn't trade my E-125 for an iPaq. That's the way I see it.
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Re: Jornada 548 or iPAQ 3650?

Postby Jaybot » Apr 8, 2001 @ 7:17am

What?  Hold on, no one's even asked the guy what hte main thing this guy'd going to be using it for. So, what are you going to be using it for mainly?  If you're going to be using it for simple PIM stuff, but you like the extra abilities of the Mp3 and video etc. but you want some real durability, and don't care too much about gaming, get the Jornada.  However, if you're going to do any serious gaming, do not get the Jornada because there is no gamepad, and while games are still playable, it's very difficult to control (i.e. using the scroll wheel to move up and down while the two buttons on the left to move left or right and then the buttons on the right for fire etc., as you can see, a little awkward).<br>If you want to do really processor intense business apps, such as big excel spreadsheets, using a graphic viewer for Powerpoint presentations, and you want it to be zippy while you're showing it to a client, get an Ipaq, ahnds down, that thing's movement through the OS, PIM functions, and normal business apps is extremely fast and the the Casio doesn't even come close (unless you get rid of all of any of the following: gigabar, WISbar, Startap, Dashboard, the Microsoft Today Screen, and you cansee how useful that is.., while the ipaq can run all of those at the same time and still have more speed)  However, if you grew up on console games, like me, and you owned an Atari, NES, SNES, Playstation/N64, good PC, and especially gameboy, you'll find the Ipaq's game playing ability, very frustrating if you want to play games using the D-pad and any buttons.. because it just doesn't work that way, the only way it is really feasible controlling htese games, I fonud was using the stylus to control movement (instead of hte D-pad) and using the buttons with your left hand, which is still very awkward for me.  But, I've heard hardcore Desktop PC gamers like this for PocketQuake, because it reminds them of Mouse in right hand, keyboard buttons with left hand.. but, I always used my gravis, so I was never hardcore, I guess. Oh, and if you plan on using your PPC outside at all, get an Ipaq, I'm sorry, but nothing else compares right now, the Casio and the HP suck (unless you really want to search for a tree or a wall for some shade and then turn the brightness and the contrast ALL the way up, just so you can kinda see the screen, and completely drain your battery. speaking of which).  The battery on the Ipaq, I've fonud, seems to last the longest out of the three becuase you can turn the backlight off, and still see the screen with many lighting situations, which you cannot do with hte others.  However, if you want the middle of the road PPC go with the Casio.  The casio, gets through most apps at a pretty good speed, much faster than the Jornada, but most of the time not even close to the Ipaq (unless you overclock it to 200MHz and remove all apps in the background).  While some games don't run as fast on the Casio (yes, it does make a difference, if anyone here played Snesce (first version of TWSFC) on the Ipaq and the Casio they would know the speed difference), to me, they seem more playable, even if it's at a slower speed sometimes.  And I do have to admit, the screen on hte Casio is amazing.  I still just stare at it sometimes and go, "damn, that is a cool looking screen!" Call me a dork if you want, but you probably do it to, if you own a casio.  And, to me, the E-125 (not the EM-500) has a solid form factor to me.  It's huge brick-like size (1/2 inch thick about 8-9 oz. heavy (full soda can is 12 oz)), fits well in my hands when I'm playing games.  The ipaq, is much smaller, and for PIM functions (hold in left hand, stylus in right) this is awesome, and compares closely to the Palm V, but looks much cooler (and does cooler stuff obviously).  But I found that when I tried to play a few games (believe me you will try this) with both hands, attempting to use the gamepad and other buttons by alternating..you get the idea..my hands would actually hurt and start to cramp up after awhile, unless I put a sleeve on it (which then makes it the same size as a Casio E-125, some say bigger, and have pictures to prove it, but that's bull, it's so minimal that it's a silly argument) but once the sleeve is on, it feels more solid.. then you realize that to really play thise thing you're going to use the stylus anyways, so you really don't need that sleeve for support (and it just feels big when you're using the stylus, to me) but then you realize, "oh crap this game is installed on my CF card, I have to leave the sleeve on" and then it just ends up being the same size as an E-125, but you're using the stylus instead of a gamepad.. but it still is faster.  Oh, and the EM-500 is cool, and kinda middle of the road, cause it's smaller than the E-125 but a little bigger than the Ipaq, and smaller than the ipaq with a sleeve, but it uses Multimedia cards, which just aren't supported enough yet, and if you already have some CF stuff, I'd go with the E-125. Alright, I'm tired of typing now.  I hope some of that helps.  And remeber, no matter what choice you make, if you buy it somewhere with a good return policy, you can always take it back within a month if you change your mind and want to try/use a different one.  Again, this is all my opinion, and I'm sure that every Ipaq evangelist will disagree with me, but it seems reasonable to me. :)
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Re: Jornada 548 or iPAQ 3650?

Postby Jaybot » Apr 8, 2001 @ 7:31am

What was Dan saying about stars per number of words, instead of number of posts?  I think I beat him. :)
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Re: Jornada 548 or iPAQ 3650?

Postby Moose or Chuck » Apr 8, 2001 @ 8:14am

I could hack the YaBB board so it does work on number of words instead of posts if someone wants to compensate me.
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Re: Jornada 548 or iPAQ 3650?

Postby Peter » Apr 8, 2001 @ 8:44am

Holy Crap Batman!  I had no idea I would stir up this much discussion - and good information.  Thanks to everyone who has taken time (thus far) to help me sort this all out.  Especially to Jaybot for taking several hours out of his weekend to put that way cool stream of consciousness piece together.  It was entertaining and helpful all at the same time.<br><br>I live in a smaller town (Bend, OR) and we don't have a variety of electronic stores around but we do have a Staples.  Their Sunday ad had a Jornada on sale for $449, including a 32mb CF card.  So, I went to check it out.  They didn't have one one display (because after having the second one ripped off the cable, they decided to not put another one out there) but they did have one in the back I was able to play with for a bit.  It was pretty cool looking (and for my money, HP wins this contest - even over the iPAQ) but I could sense that it probably would be a tad slow - and that was just how it ran out of the box.  I can only imagine how it might dog down with a whole bunch of apps on it.  It looked good.  It felt good.  But I bet it won't run all that good.  And, no, I didn't buy it.<br><br>Which brings me to what Jay first asks in his reply:  "What's the main thing this guy'd going to be using it for."  Here's what I'd want you to know - in order of importance:<br><br>1. My primary use would be as a PIM<br><br>2.  BUT the biggest reason for me to buy a Pocket PC is to be able to have Word and Excel (and Powerpoint to some degree).  I know that given my job (Director of Operations in a small start-up), I would love to have a number of these docs available to view - and even work on - away from the office.<br><br>4.  I probably won't use it to connect to the Internet BUT would love to be able to synch up my email from my work PC to read "offline."  I would also synch with AvantGo cuz I'm a news and info junkie.<br><br>5. I'm 46 - but I play more games than anyone else my age that I know.  I'm not really a console guy.  Mostly PC strategy games, simulations, sports games, some FPS etc.  The games I have probably spent the most time on over the years are Links, Rainbow Six, Baldur's Gate, Dark Forces, Unreal Tournament and the Madden series.<br><br>6. I occasionally read books and would use the reader.  Possibly a Pocket PC version of the Bible as well.<br><br>7.  I bought a Sounds Good mp3 player for my Visor but don't use it heaps and gobs - but I do like to listen to music and audio books.<br><br>8.  I probably would see how well it ran video but once I see it jerking along like a slide show would never use that function again.<br><br>There you have it.  As is probably obvious by now, my real motivation for this note was to reestablish the record for longest reply in this thread.<br><br>Thanks for coming.  Good night and drive safely.<br><br>Peter
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Re: Jornada 548 or iPAQ 3650?

Postby Dan East » Apr 8, 2001 @ 10:17am

5 & 8 would be the only items where the Jornada would seriously perform worse than the E-125 or iPaq. It sounds like you are into games, and the Jornada has no D-Pad. Many game developers would not go to the trouble to try to work around the Jornada's lack of a D-Pad (especially those releasing freeware games / emulators). Thus many games would not be playable (controllable), even if the device had enough processing power to play the game.<br>I look at it this way. Most people purchasing Pocket PCs (over Palms) do not do so because of PIM functionality. They have realized that the Pocket PC is like a desktop PC, in that it is a versatile open platform which can be used for many different things. HP has seriously crippled this aspect of what a Pocket PC is by not including a D-Pad. Heck, $30 graphing calculators have D-Pads. I don't know why they are shooting themselves in the foot here (maybe it's the old-fart-head-engineer syndrome I mentioned in another thread). In other words, I'm suggesting that you not buy a Jornada because of your interest in games.<br><br>Dan East<br><br>Last modification: Dan East - 04/08/01 at 07:17:59
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