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Warez - What's a developer to do?


Postby Dave » Jun 4, 2002 @ 5:58pm

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To SM[214]

Postby fzammetti » Jun 4, 2002 @ 6:09pm

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Postby Malmer » Jun 4, 2002 @ 6:17pm

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Your right...

Postby fzammetti » Jun 4, 2002 @ 6:23pm

...and so I said to Mr. Gates: "$640 billion should be enough for anyone!"
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Postby Ieg » Jun 4, 2002 @ 6:24pm

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Postby BS[214] » Jun 4, 2002 @ 6:27pm

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Postby BurningSheep » Jun 4, 2002 @ 6:28pm

I think that what AIM productions has done may have been a bad move... I don't know much about the deal besides from what you guys told us about it. By giving in to you they are making you more powerful, I'd rather see devs not making any deals with warez groups. I get the same feeling I get about terrorists, the best policy is to not give in to any of their demands. Because they and others will think they can get away with it or at least reach some of their goals, and thus by giving in to these demands you are only creating more terrorism.

About the community aspect, spam-ce definitely is a community. No point in denying that. It may not be a community most of us want to be a part of, although on my brief visit on your site, I did see some familiar faces. And that possibly was only the tip of the iceberg. Same goes for when I visit a pocketpc warez channel on IRC, people don't even bother using a different nick.
Overhere in Holland and Germany we have a lockpickers community, people getting together trying to pick the newest locks discussing the subject, tools etc... Some of them will probably be thieves as well, but I don't see a reason to make these meetings illegal, just because some people are doing illegal stuff with it.
I have respect for crackers (much like the same way I have for the lockpickers), some of them are quite skilled, but that doesn't mean I like the idea that they are spreading out cracked copies of software products. Most of those do it for the 'fame' and to show off how good they are, not because of the art/skill/learning experience or whatever.

[edit]
Btw. you'd be amazed how many people don't know how to use IRC. Those people would probably _never_ get their hands on warez if it weren't for sites like spam-ce. So you might not provide it yourself, but by conveniently listing ftp sites et al, you are making downloading warez easier for a lot of people.
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Postby Paradox » Jun 4, 2002 @ 6:37pm

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Postby BurningSheep » Jun 4, 2002 @ 6:42pm

So you guys are still in contact with AIM?
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Taking Responsibility

Postby Capt Picard » Jun 4, 2002 @ 6:42pm

I have been reading this conversation, and everyone assumes the developers are right, and the "pirates" are wrong. I think that this assumption is flawed in a few respects. Before I get reprimanded from the developers and pirates, please take the time to carefully read my post before responding.

Many developers are running to Spam's site and stating that what they are doing is illegal (perhaps, something for the lawyers to decide) and immoral. However, no one has taken the time to examine the actions of developers.

Now, I don't think they are doing it intentionally, but did any of the developers here ever read a license agreement? What rights do consumers have? None, quite frankly. Here are a few highlights from some PPC software licenses I have read. I have paraphrased the statements to something we all could understand. :)

1) If the software does not do what you require it to or if it is defective in some way, you cannot return it for a refund.

Everything else, including books, videocassettes and other forms of intellectual property are returnable for refund. It is possible that these other forms of media could be copied, but in order to better service their customers, these companies accept a certain percentage of the cost.

2) You cannot resell the software.

While this may not seem important, I can resell books, VHS tapes, CDs and other forms of intellectual products once I have purchased them. What makes software any different?

3) You can let a friend "borrow" a book, tape, CD, without penalty, as long as only 1 copy (the original) is being used at one time. You cannot do that with software.

Only Borland used to have this right in their agreement, but they don't anymore, and I haven't seen it since.

Anyone heard of the UCC 2B? It is a proposal (recently passed) in front of the US government. It calls for many consumer rights in terms of purchasing software to be eliminated. Why? Because the software companies have lawyers who can do it, while consumers either do not know about it, or cannot fight it.

I would recommend everyone to read this book (or borrow it at your local library). It will give you more insights into what software companies have done to reduce consumer rights.

http://www.softwareconspiracy.com/

Don't misunderstand what I am trying to say. I think warez is inexcusable and wrong. I work as a developer at an e-learning company, and I can relate to the developer's side. It bothers me to see potential customers not paying for what they clearly use. But before we demonize them, we should take a long, hard look at what we have done to our customers.

If we swindle our customers with ridiculous license agreements, then it should be no surprise that these "pirates" exist. The fact is that everyone here, "pirates" and "developers" both need to begin taking responsibility for their actions, and work to build trust again between the software companies and their users.

I am encouraged by the fact that the members of Spam's particular site seem to de-emphasize the importance of copying software and encourage the purchase of PPC software that people actually use. I think it is an important step forward from what software piracy typically means for us developers.

However, having said that, I still think that they should continue making more steps in the right direction. What they have done so far is not enough.

Hopefully, with the right encouragement and support from their moderators, users, and us (the developers), we can significantly limit (and perhaps even negate) the amount of software that is being distributed illegaly. In the same turn, we as developers, should begin to grant more consumer rights, such as refunds, to our license agreements to protect both the software company, and its customers.

I realize that members from both sides of the argument may disagree with what I have just posted. You are entitled to disagree and disregard what I have said. However, before you do, please think about it. It has worked well for our business as our profits have risen significantly due to changes in our policies, and we have more loyal customers than ever before.
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Postby BS[214] » Jun 4, 2002 @ 6:51pm

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Some good points

Postby fzammetti » Jun 4, 2002 @ 7:02pm

Last edited by fzammetti on Jun 4, 2002 @ 7:06pm, edited 1 time in total.
...and so I said to Mr. Gates: "$640 billion should be enough for anyone!"
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Postby Michael Y » Jun 4, 2002 @ 7:04pm

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Postby Capt Picard » Jun 4, 2002 @ 7:31pm

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Postby Michael Y » Jun 4, 2002 @ 7:34pm

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