This site is no longer active and is available for archival purposes only. Registration and login is disabled.

Warez - What's a developer to do?


Postby BS[214] » Jun 11, 2002 @ 8:34pm

Warez hurts both the developer and the consumers, none has ever disputed that.

The only thing in contention is what Spam's does. In a simple or uninformed clasification Spam's is a warez site, therefore bad. In a realistic clasification Spam's does not distribute software to unknown newbies and leachers, we do allow trusted members to share our software (as I said before, this is the members activity and is done away from the board), and we encorage each other to purchase the softs we share.

My point this entire time is that Spam's does not fit in the warez catagory, it is neutral teritory.

And sorry for being rude in my last responce, I've just been trying to have an intelegent conversation about what Spam's actualy is and we keep getting these scriptkiddies from IRC Warez board popping in here to make there 'l337' declerations of how great they are and that they will never go away.... It's hard to have a conversation when the kids won't shut-up.
BS[214]
 


Postby James S » Jun 11, 2002 @ 9:00pm

fzammetti, can you give me statistics of how your software would sell if everyone in the entire world was honest and didn't steal? No you can't. Can you guaranty that in this same situation the people that warezed your software before would have bought it? No you can't. Can you even give me a statistic of how many people have your software illegally? No, you can't. How do you know that warez is making any impact at all? Maybe more people are buying your software because it's getting more exposure. Maybe you're losing millions and the two thousand people that actually bought it all gave it away to 100 of their closest IRC channels free for download to anyone that comes passing by.

The thing is, you can't say precisely how much, if any, warez has impacted your sales. We consumers, on the other hand, can see the impact of theft every time we make a purchase. It shows up in clear numbers on our credit card and bank statements. It reveals itself through the emptiness of our wallets. It is constantly present for us because you have to raise prices to compensate for theft. Warez is bad, and it should be outlawed, but I stick to my belief that it does not hurt developers nearly as much, if at all, as consumers.
James S
pm Insider
 
Posts: 17064
Joined: Jan 12, 2002 @ 2:33pm
Location: Lexington, KY


To Moose

Postby fzammetti » Jun 11, 2002 @ 9:18pm

Let me start off by saying, as I did in my last post, that if your argument is that consumers are hurt *MORE* by warez than developers, with that I won't argue. However, in your original post, you said "Warez does nothing to hurt the developer, only the consumer". With this I absolutely disagree.

No, I can't give you statistics on how my software would sell if everyone in the world was honest and didn't steal. However, it is logically accurate to say that if even ONE person obtains a warez'd copy that otherwise would have bought it, I have been harmed. Since my software has in fact been warez'd, and I can absolutely prove that more than a few people have it, and since it is not unreasonable to assume that at least one of those people would have bought it, I can assume I have been hamed by warez. Yes, it's an assumption and as such I cannot absolutely prove it, but it is quite reasonable.

Can I guarantee that everyone that warez my software would have bought it? No, of course not. In fact, I would assume that the majority would NOT have bought it. Even if I go so far as to say 99% would NOT have bought it, it's that 1% that is doing me harm. We're just talking a matter of degrees, nothing more.

Can I give you precise statistics of how many people have my software illegally? The implication seeming to be that some number will be OK while some will not? No, I can't give you statistics. Again though, I can absolutely prove without doubt that at least one person does, and in fact many do, so therefore statistics are not needed.

Your right, maybe more people are buying my software because of exposure. Can you give me statistics to prove this? If you can, I will certainly rethink my position on warez.

How do I know warez is making any impact at all? I don't with 100% certainty. But making assumptions based on ONE SINGLE INSTANCE is quite reasonable.

Your argument that consumers see the impact of warez every time they look in their wallets or on their credit card statements is dubious to say the least. Who's to say that every developer would not charge exactly the same amounts if there was no warez at all? Show me some statistics that states that developers would lower their prices if there was no warez.

I'll say it again: are consumers hurt MORE than developers? Ok, that's probably true. Are developers hurt? It is quite reasonable to believe so. Are they hurt a lot? I bet most would think so. And who's to determine what a lot is anyway? Should I be allowed to determine how much pain you can endure at the hands of a torturer or should you? What right would I have to determine that for you?

Same thing for developers. It's our right to determine how much harm warez is doing to us, not anyone else's (very certainly not the pirates, and I'm not saying you are by the way). If we raise our prices because of it, we'd better be able to justify that to consumers, otherwise they will take their business elsewhere.

And that's really the bottom line here when all is said and done... if we as developers treat our customers poorly, they can go somewhere else. But as a developer, if I am unable to make sales because warez is cutting into that, what recourse do I have? Yes, consumers are hurt by warez, but developers are too!
...and so I said to Mr. Gates: "$640 billion should be enough for anyone!"
User avatar
fzammetti
pm Insider
 
Posts: 1496
Joined: Jun 4, 2002 @ 6:21pm
Location: Omnytex Technologies


Postby James S » Jun 11, 2002 @ 9:44pm

James S
pm Insider
 
Posts: 17064
Joined: Jan 12, 2002 @ 2:33pm
Location: Lexington, KY


Postby suchiaruzu » Jun 11, 2002 @ 9:55pm

<div align="center">Image<br></div>
User avatar
suchiaruzu
pm Insider
 
Posts: 2570
Joined: May 3, 2001 @ 9:29am
Location: BFE


The problem...

Postby fzammetti » Jun 11, 2002 @ 10:01pm

...and so I said to Mr. Gates: "$640 billion should be enough for anyone!"
User avatar
fzammetti
pm Insider
 
Posts: 1496
Joined: Jun 4, 2002 @ 6:21pm
Location: Omnytex Technologies


Postby BS[214] » Jun 11, 2002 @ 10:17pm

BS[214]
 


Postby W@R3Z B0$$ » Jun 11, 2002 @ 10:47pm

WAREZ WILL NEVER DIE

[Admin Edit: Thank you for that insightful post]
W@R3Z B0$$
 


Postby suchiaruzu » Jun 11, 2002 @ 10:57pm

You are not smart, you are not cool, you are not elite, you are not a hacker, you do not have anything to tell us we do not already know. You are just annoying, that's everything. Please stop it, messing up the layout sucks.
<div align="center">Image<br></div>
User avatar
suchiaruzu
pm Insider
 
Posts: 2570
Joined: May 3, 2001 @ 9:29am
Location: BFE


Postby esw » Jun 11, 2002 @ 11:30pm

Way to go, Shape.

The forums should limit the length of a line...
esw
pm Member
 
Posts: 536
Joined: Jun 15, 2001 @ 5:57pm


Postby W@R3Z B0$$ » Jun 11, 2002 @ 11:53pm



that's the my last post here... have fun without me :twisted:

W@R3Z B0$$
 


Postby James S » Jun 12, 2002 @ 12:02am

I'll bet 20$ he's banned now, regardless of whether he says he'll come back or not, don't bother responding.

I know I was going back and forth on that last post of mine, and I surely didn't mean to make any personal statements about your software or your price point. I was, throughout the post, simply trying to show how both sides of my argument wouldn't solve warez and that an equilibrium can never be met.

I have nothing more to say on the issue so I'll let the experts discuss it some more.
James S
pm Insider
 
Posts: 17064
Joined: Jan 12, 2002 @ 2:33pm
Location: Lexington, KY


No worries

Postby fzammetti » Jun 12, 2002 @ 1:09am

I didn't take anything personally Moose, I hope you didn't either. It's just two guys who disagree on some things arguing their positions. Just what the net is supposed to be I figure!

Thanks to the 10-year old lamer for breaking the monotony though. It always amazes me how people who just learned what a computer was last year can think they are so elite.

Here's a clue kids:

If you can't spell words the way they really are spelled, your not elite.

If you can't carry on an intelligent conversation without raging on someone or screwing up the thread, your not elite.

Lastly (and why do I hear Jeff Foxworthy in my head here?!?)...

The more you feel you have to TELL people your elite, YOU ARE MOST DEFINITELY NOT.
...and so I said to Mr. Gates: "$640 billion should be enough for anyone!"
User avatar
fzammetti
pm Insider
 
Posts: 1496
Joined: Jun 4, 2002 @ 6:21pm
Location: Omnytex Technologies


Postby TechMage » Jun 12, 2002 @ 6:44am

User avatar
TechMage
pm Insider
 
Posts: 2223
Joined: Sep 16, 2001 @ 5:40pm
Location: In Your Head


Postby BS[214] » Jun 12, 2002 @ 10:02pm

BS[214]
 


PreviousNext

Return to Windows Mobile


Sort


Forum Description

A discussion forum for mobile device developers on the Windows Mobile platform. Any platform specific topics are welcome.

Moderators:

Dan East, sponge, Digby, David Horn, Kevin Gelso, RICoder

Forum permissions

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum