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Warez - What's a developer to do?


Postby Dan East » Jun 3, 2002 @ 4:33pm

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Postby LM » Jun 3, 2002 @ 4:44pm

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Postby Ieg » Jun 3, 2002 @ 4:45pm

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Postby Dan East » Jun 3, 2002 @ 4:59pm

I guess it's true I have a hard time relating to your "cause". To use an analogy, I'm the engineer that designs automobiles. You guys are the network of car thieves and stolen parts distributors making illegal and immoral use of my creations.

I'm hardly mad, pissed, or even upset. As I said, I certainly am not naive, and of course knew of warez activity. It is however annoying seeing you people rise to the surface now and again to promote your cause, especially in forums frequented by those responsible for producing the products you try to manipulate.

You have not enlightened any of us to anything, nor has your pathetic attempt to portrait warez as some sort of valuable marketing tool succeeded. Gei, I see you posting in various places complaining of controls in general, be it in regards to networking or otherwise. I also know that those seeking general anarchy, or the lack of controls of any kind in any area, are out there as well. Unfortunately at the moment some of them are here as well.

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Postby LM » Jun 3, 2002 @ 5:09pm

you've made your point, I've made mine, I've nothing else to say here.

Cheers & cya'round
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Perhaps I can offer a unique perspective...

Postby fzammetti » Jun 3, 2002 @ 5:09pm

I'd like to get in on this discussion because I think I may have a unique point of view here... a little history first...

I've been "into computers" for just over 20 years. I've done a great many things, many of which I'm extremely proud of, just as many I'm not.

Years ago, back in the C64 days, I was a pirate. Mostly I coded intros for a number of famous groups (EagleSoft, FBR, NewAge and PE to name a few), but I also did some cracking and I also contributed to distribution at times (i.e., connecting with crackers in Norway via 300 baud modem and receiving their latest releases for distribution in the US).

I was young and I didn't see the other side of the fence, the people I was taking money away from. Sure, I understood hard work on a piece of code, I'd done that plenty by that time, but I didn't understand making money from my work yet, and I certainly didn't understand that some people actually make a living at it.

Aside from the monetary aspect though, I had no sense whatsoever of why what I was doing may or may not be illegal or even immoral. It just didn't occur to me that it might be more than just a little wrong, which is probably all I thought at the time. I new I shouldn't be doing it, but I certainly didn't realize any "big-picture" aspects of it.

Now, jump forward about 15 years. Now I'm a "professional" developer. I make excellent money doing my day job, and I make a nice supplemental income from my PocketPC development work.

So, I had a very odd feeling when I saw my own PocketPC software available on Spam's site (well, a post in a forum directing me on where to get it to be precise, it wasn't strictly speaking "available" on Spam's site). At first I actually thought it was kind of cool... I figured "gee, if someone thought my software was good enough to pirate, I must have done a good job!". And to some degree I think that's true, even now.

But then I thought about the money I was probably losing because of this, and it pissed me off. Look, I've used pirated software before, I'm certainly not going to try and deny it. I haven't over the past few years because the only factor that in the past that would cause me to use warez, not being able to afford it legally, is no longer a concern. But now I most certainly see why what I have done in the past was so wrong.

Look, anyone that tries to rationalize warez and tries to justify what is undeniably an illegal activity (or support of an illegal activity, which by legal definition is itself illegal), either (a) doesn't understand what they are doing, (b) isn't being honest with themselves or (c) has no moral compass and hence just doesn't care.

That being said, as has been said before during this thread... it's not going to stop, ever. Trying to fight piracy is a losing battle, much like trying to live a 100% healthy life is probably impossible. There is just too much out of your control to ever but a significant dent into it.

This idea of Spam's of a developer asking the warez community to hold off a while though strikes me as patently ridiculous. Even if I assume that his motives are 100% altruistic, which I do not because I understand the warez community and I understand what drives it (ego, plain and simple), this amounts to a protection scheme. Just because no money changes hands doesn't change what it is. Just because I as a developer might in fact gain some benefit from agreeing to do this, doesn't make it right. It's EXACTLY the same as the school bully telling a kid in the lunch line to give him his milk money and he'll protect him from the school bully when HE'S THE DAMNED BULLY!

Put it this way... if a protector is paid by a protectee to protect the protectee from some harm that the protector would cause if not employed by the protectee, that's a protection racket and 100% illegal. Spam, this is exactly what you are doing with your offer. You say you don't get paid and you gain no benefit from the developer for doing this. Well, in fact you do because your status in the warez community increases. You are empowered because you are seen as having control or something. This is how the warez community works, even if it is not something you realize. And as I said before, even if you are the one exception and your motives are really good, the effect is the same, which doesn't make it any less wrong.

I don't want to make it sound like I'm picking on Spam, that's not my intent. Your not doing anything that so many others are not doing.

So what do us developers do about it? Well, we have to understand some basic truths...

(1) You are NOT going to stop pirates. No matter how clever your protection scheme, no matter how solid your algorithms or how tricky your registration schemes, no matter how many sites you get taken down, crackers and distributors will still pirate your software. They are THAT good at what they do.

(2) Contrary to what some people like to say, most people that use warez will NOT go out and purchase the software if they like it. Sure, some will, but most won't.

(3) Most of the time (I'd be willing to bet 80-90%), people that use warez are doing so because they cannot afford your software to begin with, and for no other reason. Therefore, there probably is not all that big of a loss to you (believe me, I'm not justifying ANY loss, just stating what I believe are facts). As Dan said with the example of WalMart, you should be figuring some level of theft loss into your numbers, as unfortunate and sad as that fact is.

So, what are we to do? Well, the first thing to do, as other have said here, is to make it as tough as possible to crack your stuff, without going nuts yourself to do it. The harder the make it, the longer you can delay the inevitable. You might even make it so hard that many of the lesser crackers will give up (you will of course get a few who will now put in a bigger effort because it's more of a challenge!).

Also, do what I do: keep an eye on the warez community and see how widespread your software really is. As Sun Tzu said, know your enemy (I'm of course paraphrasing!) And by all means, request ISP's to close down sites when you see them. I say to do this but I also say this: don't spend a great deal of time on it! The sites will pop up again quickly (if they in fact get taken down at all) and your stuff will still be distributed, but I don't see anything wrong with trying to slow it down a bit.

It's kind of weird, but the warez community pretty much EXPECTS this from you! They expect that you will shut down their sites and protect your software better (but NEVER to the detriment of your paying customers, it is ALWAYS better to surrender to pirates than inconvenience your customers!). And we on the other side have to expect that they will crack your protection and distribute your hard work for free, so we have to figure that into our sales figures. But as I said, make it as tough on them as possible!

This is from someone who has been squarely on the other side of the fence mind you. I can't stop piracy, and neither can any other developer. But what annoys me the most is any pirate trying to justify what they are doing. You cannot justify theft as far as I'm concerned, and I think that's what bugged me the most when I saw my own stuff there. The poster was saying "sure, here's where you can get a completely limit-free version of this product. Oh, you should probably buy it if you like it.". Damn it, there should be an emoticon for WINK-WINK on message like that because that's what it's saying.

The bottom line, for the developers, is this: piracy is here to stay, and you can't stop it, but you should do whatever you can to slow it down, as long as that effort itself doesn't have ill effects on your work or most importantly your paying customers. Understand that you WILL lose money to piracy, count on it. How much is hard to determine. I personally figure on 10% and go from there. Beyond that, vent your frustrations on boards like this and understand that you are not alone!

The bottom line, for the pirates, is this: what you are doing is wrong, illegal and immoral. Some day you will likely understand that. Many of you (but certainly not all) are young, and so I can forgive you to some extent (much like I forgive myself, but not even entirely). Trying to find ways to work with the developer community is the height of insult. Your asking us to somehow condone your actions because you profess they are born of some higher goal. Bull. You are taking money out of our pockets for a boost in ego and online karma, plain and simple. I can't stop you, but I'm certainly not going to HELP you. We can't just all get along! You are an enemy, and even though I'm not going to try and start some all-out war because I know I can't win, I'm not going to give you any help in your endeavors.
fzammetti
 


Postby refractor » Jun 3, 2002 @ 5:11pm

fzammetti:

Well said, nice post. :)
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Postby gamefreaks » Jun 3, 2002 @ 5:17pm

I think that there is a posative and a negative aspect to warez.

Lets get one thing straight though. Cracking or downloading things like Dexplorer is wrong. Full stop. What does $20 mean to anyone? Nothing! Most people would waste that on a round down the booza'
But it is very demotivating for the author.
If you can afford the software, then it is immoral to use an unlicenced copy.

On the other hand, downloading software like 3dsmax for example, I don't see anything that is really very wrong with that. How many individuals can afford $6000 on a software licence? The developers havn't lost anything, They've just gained a person with skills in their software. The flip side of this is for every high-end software download, theres a low-end software developer losing out.

On the whole warez does a lot more damage to the industry than ever it can help. While downloading industry-strength software to be familier in them can be beneficial, downloading copies of things like Dexplorer is very bad.

Just imagine if people like Dan East were to not bother doing things like PocketQuake, DooM Legacy (My favorite source port) etc. Would button-bashin' be the same?
What if everything is an illusion and nothing exists? In that case, I definitely overpaid for my carpet. -Woody Allen
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Postby LM » Jun 3, 2002 @ 5:29pm

gamefreaks : now, now, if we start saying that expansive soft is ok to pirate, then it's not a matter of right or wrong, it's a money factor. It's quite a subjective thing saying "soft A" or "soft B" is expansive, meaning money vs functionality...for instance, I see pocketPC developers asking $30 for a PPC cards game when you can buy Soldier of Fortune 2 for PC with almost the same amount...it cannot be a matter of saying expansive is ok to pirate, otherwise, most of what Spam does is right.

fzammetti : a lot of wise words in your (extremely) long post. Agree with about 90%. The other 10% you already know.
LM
 


Yeah...

Postby fzammetti » Jun 3, 2002 @ 5:36pm

fzammetti
 


Postby Malmer » Jun 3, 2002 @ 5:44pm

What might actually kill parts of the warez community in a way is probably online play. Like consider games like and other MMORPG:s...there you have to subscribe toi a service...which makes it harder to crack.
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Postby LM » Jun 3, 2002 @ 5:49pm

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Postby Malmer » Jun 3, 2002 @ 5:59pm

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Postby LM » Jun 3, 2002 @ 6:09pm

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Postby Ieg » Jun 3, 2002 @ 6:15pm

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