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WE WANT QUAKE FOR HP JORNADA 690/720!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Re: WE WANT QUAKE FOR HP JORNADA 690/720!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Dan East » May 16, 2001 @ 8:26am

Games such as Pocket Quake and Leo's Flight Simulator do not rely on the OS or hardware for drawing graphic primitives. They have their own routines that perform the drawing. When the frame is built it is blitted directly to the display hardware. To my knowledge it is possible to directly access the video hardware buffer of any Windows CE device made. Before Windows CE 3.0 there was a "Game API" created by a third party (I don't know his name offhand) that allowed for direct screen access. Even Jimmy Software used this library for their early games on CE 2.11 Palm-Sized PCs. So yes, it is possible for PQ to run on the Jornada 720, etc. I doubt it will run faster than the iPaq, because the only thing that counts in this case is processor speed, memory speed, and emulated floating point math speed. The iPaq has better benchmark results in those areas than any other device (* see note). Some devices (the Casios) greatly excel at OS drawn graphic primitives. Again, the problem is that "real" games do not rely on the those routines, which still may be slower than when the application peforms those functions with its own custom code.<br>While I'm talking about performance I'll bring up another interesting item. I was reading through the docs included with the Quake source code. Many routines, specifically the 3D rendering / drawing code, were written in both C and in optimized x86 assembly. John Carmack says that if the optimized x86 assembly code is used then Quake will run almost twice as fast then when the C routines are used. Of course PQ uses the C code, as assembly is processor specific. So what that means is that if someone were to recode those assembly routines for a Pocket PC processor, then a huge increase in performance would be seen. Of course there is still the Fixed Point optimizations, which result in even greater improvement. So at this point, I believe that it is possible for PQ to run at 60 fps on the iPaq, if key routines were written in assembly, and a global fixed point conversion were done. At this time I have a lot of other "real" responsibilities going on that have kept me from working on PQ. I still follow the discussion boards daily. Hopefully within the next month I'll be able to dedicate a slice of time to PQ, during which I should be able to finish a big fixed point conversion.<br><br>Dan East<br><br>* The @migo churns out slightly faster benchmark results than the iPaq in almost all areas, even though it uses the exact same processor. My little conspiracy theory is that Palmax just slightly overclocked the main board (at the hardware level, probably via the timing crystal, etc), for the sole purpose of slightly besting the iPaq for publicity / sales reasons. It would only take a few mhz to achieve the 1-2% improvement we see. Further evidence that the system as a whole is running over-speed is that the Media Player played songs too fast (sorta like the Chipmunks). Palmax let that one slip by. They probably had to tweak the OS to make up for timing problems, and missed that one. If there are timing problems with 3rd party games and other multimedia apps then it would further reinforce my theory. :)
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Re: WE WANT QUAKE FOR HP JORNADA 690/720!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Moose or Chuck » May 16, 2001 @ 9:14am

hrmm... dan thats an interesting theory. So who's gonna start the asm coding, i've messed with Calc asm but thats just a little easier :)
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Re: WE WANT QUAKE FOR HP JORNADA 690/720!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Dan East » May 16, 2001 @ 10:52am

The big problem is that is it processor specific. Thus the devices would only be supported one at a time, assuming that the programmer went to the trouble to support all three types. That also assumes that the programmer was good at assembly and could adapt to multiple types of processors easily. I don't know how much experience is required with a particular processor to write very optimized assembly for it.<br><br>Dan East
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Re: WE WANT QUAKE FOR HP JORNADA 690/720!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Moose or Chuck » May 16, 2001 @ 1:43pm

And on the PR side, we'd all either be whining about how the iPaq got 60FPS assembly PQ and we have to wait a month for the Casio to catch up, or we'd all have to wait in unison for 3 months while every processor is coded for and released at the same time. Can I beta test (so I can leak out the betas so everyone has a fast build? I won't leak bad ones, I promise) (did I just say that outloud or think it? Oh, it's in parenthesis so I thought it and you didn't hear it. Good)
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Re: WE WANT QUAKE FOR HP JORNADA 690/720!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Moose or Chuck » May 16, 2001 @ 2:46pm

well, i don't know anyone who is really good at asm, sept for simple processors it gets really complicateed with processors like these, not because of what the code is, but what it isn't. Like on TI's they didn't even have a multiply command so you have to write so much more to do so little :(
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Re: WE WANT QUAKE FOR HP JORNADA 690/720!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Moose or Chuck » May 16, 2001 @ 3:15pm

Well I'm going to port Quake to my microwave using ASM, so EH!
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Re: WE WANT QUAKE FOR HP JORNADA 690/720!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby randall » May 16, 2001 @ 3:33pm

Quake has already been ported to the Samsung Household Microwave Oven (model MW5380W). Currently it only supports those Microwave ovens manufactured after May 1999.
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Re: WE WANT QUAKE FOR HP JORNADA 690/720!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Moose or Chuck » May 16, 2001 @ 4:53pm

Link?
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Re: WE WANT QUAKE FOR HP JORNADA 690/720!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby 999 » May 16, 2001 @ 7:57pm

I guess that brings a whole new meaning to phrase "Quake and Bake"<br><br>:)<br><br>
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Re: WE WANT QUAKE FOR HP JORNADA 690/720!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Moose or Chuck » May 17, 2001 @ 2:58pm

999's humor... funny, but in a grandpa kind of way.
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Re: WE WANT QUAKE FOR HP JORNADA 690/720!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Moose or Chuck » May 17, 2001 @ 9:26pm

ya :)
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Re: WE WANT QUAKE FOR HP JORNADA 690/720!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby SonicSilicon » May 17, 2001 @ 11:50pm

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Re: WE WANT QUAKE FOR HP JORNADA 690/720!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby randall » May 18, 2001 @ 12:30am

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Re: WE WANT QUAKE FOR HP JORNADA 690/720!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Chris Edwards » May 18, 2001 @ 12:38am

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Re: WE WANT QUAKE FOR HP JORNADA 690/720!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postby Moose or Chuck » May 18, 2001 @ 8:50am

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