Quake 3 is not way off...

[Dan East]

Just because the processor does not natively support floating point does not mean that it can't be performed by combining multiple smaller operations. That is called floating point emulation. As an analogy, say you know how to add but not multiply. If I asked you to multiply 9 times 5, you could simply add 9 together 5 times. If you knew multiplication you could perform the task much more efficiently using less steps.<br><br>Dan East

[Moose or Chuck]

Floating point math requires a co-processor (that is being built into pilot processors) for real computers. I believe that what Dan might have said is that there are no Floating Point co-processors in PocketPCs at this point. And since iPaq's have a better direct memory access it can emulate floating point is software much easier. But bit shifting integers is still much faster than floating. Didn't you notice the speed increase that even the iPaq received due to Dan's tireless float->int conversion?

[randall]

Hmm, I don't recall much abou the cutscenes. I sure have played the demo, which apparently 4:21 HAS NOT.<br><br>Not only does it play third person, but you can switch to first person any time to get those head shots.<br><br>The animation is flawless- and consistent with real world physics. If you try to roll/jump down the stairs, Snake will trip and slide all the way to the bottom face first. <br><br>Each footstep in the rain produces a "splash" under his feet. The wind-blown rain is swept violently off the ships deck. Droplets of rain will often fogs your lens making it difficult to see.<br><br>The wounded leave a trail of blood, and will slowly bleed to death if not bandaged. So eventually you could die from a single gunshot wound that happened 10 minutes earlier.<br><br>It also leaves a blood trail for enemies to follow.<br><br>The game isn't won by "shooting everything in site". It's about stealth and outsmarting the game. Apparently 4:21 doesn't contain the cranial capacity to outsmart a PS2.<br><br>Damn, I could go on and on. Show me a single PC game that accomplishes everything MGS2 can do, with such fluidity and stunning visuals.<br><br>Most of "movie" is actual gameplay scenes- not cutscenes. <br><br>There is nothing "point-and-click" about the game.<br><br>PS2 isn't for everyone, I agree. It sure as hell doesn't replace my 6-computer LAN at home. But it is certainly a decent alternative.<br><br>

[Paul]

Hmm, I'm gonna have to agree with 4:21... <br><br>Its just like all that rubbish about Perfect Dark. What IS so amazing about it? And Goldeneye? HA! Yes I have played them and they don't come anywhere near to a game on a good PC. Yes you don't have to upgrade to play the latest games etc etc but all this 'realistic' stuff you're talking about in MGS2 (and others) is what we've had for years in games like Quake and Half-Life - there are mods available in those allowing you to 'bleed to death', play in 3rd person, using stealth... all that's better is the graphics which, quite frankly are only better in THEORY given the awful quality on TVs and the so-called 'futuristic' hardware which is anything but. Even the developers are sloppy, knowing that people will buy their games because they are 'cool'...<br><br>This brings me to my problems with the Game Boy Advance. Any of my N64 loving mates I talk to practically attack me when i slip in the 'hey, isnt that a GAME GEAR' remark... that's EXACTLY what it is, yes with slightly better graphics sounds and more advanced games but COME ON, stop pretending its something completely new. <br><br>Finally, have you seen any 'video game' adverts lately? I have and in each one, only one shot of the actual GAME is shown, and even then its the best feature that takes ages to actually see when you've started playing. The rest is the usual FMV... look at Final Fantasy, some twat with big hair and a girl DANCING?!? Sure it looks good but I wanna see some proper in-game stuff not hours of FMV intercut every so often with a bit of gameplay.<br><br>That's what I think anyways

[Moose or Chuck]

The ONLY reason that ANY game on Playstation 2, such as MGS2, looks AT ALL better than a PC game, is because the developers can take full advantage of a system with an amount of hardware variables of zero. PC Developers make games that will work on a Pentium2 300, while I have a Athlon 1.3GHz which I could play 5 MGS2s on SIMULTANEOUSLY, if the game was designed to be played on my system specs and only my system specs. Every time a console comes out, people think that it's going to kill the PC gaming market. But 3 months later, when PCs have been upped by 400 MHz and the graphics cards have added 12 new photorealistic features, you're suck with a mipmapping bitch like the N64, or an PS2 that people can't figure out how to use antialiasing on. No one could program for the Saturn because of it's unique design. No one can program for the PS2 because of it's unique design. Remember where the Saturn went? I loved my Saturn and wish a great deal that Sega provided backwards compatability in every new system they brought out (Master System -> Genesis -> Sega CD -> 32X -> Saturn -> Dreamcast). If that were the case I would be playing my Saturn games right now instead of typing this.

[Paul]

Wow. I think I actually agree with Moose on something.

[randall]

I never once said PS2 is going to kill ANYTHING. Thinking a console is going to outperform the latest in PC technology is just plain idiotic.<br><br>Perfect Dark was point and click. It sucked ass. Final Fantasy is a worthless and tired franchise that is essentially a MOVIE.<br><br>I don't even know where the hell N64 would come into the conversation. It is about as relevent as Moose's Sega Saturn (now orbiting Uranus )<br><br>So these efforts of "pointing out stupid console games" doesn't have a damn thing to do with MGS2.<br><br>I have played the shit out of mods for nearly every FPS on the market. Infiltration 2.85 for Unreal Tournament beats the living shit out of Counterstrike in every aspect of the game. So don't even try to impress me with you paltry Half-Loaf mods. Infiltration is very well written, but doesn't supply nearly half the immersive environment of MGS2.<br><br>MGS2 supports a fully rendered 3D environment that can be played like any FPS out there. The ooh-and-awe graphics factor wears off quickly, just like any game. Yet there is still enough substance to drive the game, with massive replay value to spare.<br><br>But enough about this PS2 crap- forget that MGS2 is coming to PS2 first since it is also slated for PC release.<br><br>The game itself is a work of art, regardless of platform.<br><br>

[Moose or Chuck]

So we all agree that the PS2 is garbage? Good, then I have nothing left to say. Ugh. I'm getting tired of people impressed with the graphics on their consoles. Gameplay is fine, unless I have played the game and think otherwise, but not graphics, on ANY console.

[randall]

Look, I'm not a fucking idiot. I'm the one who thinks the Quake3 engine is excellent and the game sucks ass (yet I have not found ONE person to defend Quake3).<br><br>So I know the difference between being "WOWED" by the graphics and being "WOWED" by the gameplay.<br><br>I don't agree the PS2 sucks though. No more than PPC sucks for lacking any type of real hardware upgrades (video, sound, etc.). Games are now being written to appear simultaneously on multiple platforms.<br><br>You'd better get used to it if you want to do any game-related career.

[Paul]

I actually prefer Quake to Quake 3, but then I think NHL96 for the megadrive is the best game ever, so...

[Diego Cueva]

What?! Summer Games was the best game ever made for a console or PC ( after PONG, of course ;D )<br><br>ops, this is getting off topic... sorry.<br><br>Diego Cueva<br><br>

[Moose or Chuck]

I remember that game. It SUCKED @$$ ! Hehe, just kidding. It wasn't that much fun for me when I was 6 years old.

[Diego Cueva]

I was about 6 too... I played it my neighbor´s console. Once, I even broke his controller playing it. But it´s ok, becouse he was playing Wolfstein in my 368, and he didn´t care about it... Oh, the good old childhood... <br><br>Diego Cueva<br><br>Last modification: Diego Cueva - 04/16/01 at 04:02:23

[Jaybot]

Wow, I never knew how biased many of you people are.  Because you spent too much on your desktop cpu, you get pissed off because randall says a PS2 game is good.  Jesus Christ, I haven't heard anything as stupid come out of any of anyone's mouths on this board ever.  And originally, I would have ignored the comment by god4:20, but then people blurting out complete shit like the Gameboy Advance being a Gamegear and saying that MGS2 is crap and the graphics on ANY console is crap.  Are you hardcore PC owners that ignorant?  You must be, randall (and most likely 999 would) has said the only words of wisdom so far.  And I'm sure you will all be pissed off at me for saying any of this, but you couldn't be any more wrong.  I have actually been able to maintain a gamer status on both the desktop PC console, and now PPC levels.  I don't buy into the "desktop PC games will and always have been better than any console game" crap.  In the past year, nothing has come out for the PC that is even comparable to a console system, except maybe Escape from Monkey Island (which basically is a point and click game).  The GBA is by far NOT the game gear, runs on a 32 bit (ARM, like the Ipaq) processor, and out performs the SNES in many areas, while the gamegear was an 8-bit system (in fact it was the same hardware as the master system in a smaller box).  And I guarantee they GBA will have much better games in it's launch month than the PPC will, still by then, collectivley have.  Consoles have some of the best games period, many that surpass desktop PCs in graphics and definitely gameplay.  They don't have to be a 1.3Ghz to run games half as good as a PC, because they don't have to multitask and they are dedicated gaming 'consoles', hence the name.  Moose, you'll be lucky to run MGS2 on your 1.3GHz once on your system when it comes out.<br><br>"so-called 'futuristic' hardware which is anything but. Even the developers are sloppy, knowing that people will buy their games because they are 'cool'... "<br><br>I'm not sure if I even want to comment on that asenine remark, insulting yourself as a gamer, saying that you yourself buy games because they are 'cool', developers are sloppy on EVERY platform, and I've noticed, more so on the PC platform, do you know how many times I've had (shit the whole market had to) to pay money in a store to beta test for a 'released product' for a company, because they decided to release it, and patch it up (because they can) later?  That pisses me off.  <br><br>Perfect Dark did suck, I didn't like it.  Goldeneye was actually a fun game, you should try playing it, I never liked it much myself, but I didn't own an N64 because there was only 2 or 3 good games for it.  Mario64 and .. something else, and definitely Conker's Bad Fur Day now.  But we're not talking about the N64 are we?  Why are people comparing the N64 to their Ghz computers?  Because when the N64 first came out, it was doing better graphics (and definitely gameplay wise) than my PC?  Probably, let's keep skipping around the fact that many PS2 games, even without the anti-aliasing (which is such a fucking buzz-word, all anti-aliasing does is blur the edges of pixels/polys for screens that don't have the resolution to show a straight line, which really isn't that damn important to me, listen to randall and play/watch MGS2 and you won't even know or care what anti-aliasing is anymore), are much better gameplay and graphic wise than many present PC games.  You really need to take those blindfolds off your eyes and look at the other games out there that aren't confined to your oatmeal colored box on your desktop.  You have no idea what you're missing (except maybe a lot of, oh shit, this is a cool game! or, maybe games do exist outside of my PC...)<br>At first, I was a little scared that the PC gaming market might die out to the amazing capabilities of these next gen. consoles (the lack of good games lately was starting to convince me) but now I know that with loyal desktop PC gamers like you guys, it will never die.

[Moose or Chuck]

well kids, i believe that for me since my computer is sub par, a 450 amd, that a dc is better than it. But ummm, there are good games that came out for the PC this year, what about Tribes 2, and Black and WHite, how about Alice, or Messiah, or sims or. well u get the picture.