religion, again.

[James S]

[sandmann]

My point was that God doesn't make you believe in him to go to heaven. He gives you a chance to do what's right, and if you do, you get one point in the God column. If you don't, well you're still fuckin going to heaven, but who knows, maybe all the kids with halos will make fun of you or something.

There's a hell, but no one's there. Everyone, everything is part of God therefore they all have a spot alongside him. So how's that for reasoning? The bible was distorted by humans, how could you expect it to be correct? They wanted heaven to be so exclusive. God doesn't mind that people are forced to believe in him and do good things, but I don't think you need to have the cross around your neck when you die to earn a ticket to heaven.

[TechMage]

Happyness comes from within. Good and bad come and go like waves in the ocean. So ride the good waves and the bad and be happy through both. The only thing you can truely count on in life is change. I think religions are crap. They all have conflicting and confusing accounts. They are all man made in my opinion. Most religions were written by tons of different men and women and thats why one passage disagrees with another passage.

People have spent their entire lives trying to make sense of any one religion and they never do. If they think they have, someone else will point out something they missed and all there work was for nothing. Why do you think there are so many denominations and factions of the same religion. I personally look at human knowledge of religious subjects as piles of garbage. If you dig through them you find alot of shit, but also a few treasures. I grab the treasures, and leave the shit. I have found more tid bits of wisdom in journals, articles, quotes, and other non-religious material, then I have in religious books.

As far as the afterlife, the birth of existence, God, gods, spirits, and everything else otherworldly. Who cares? As far as God, gods, spirits, ect go, I think they are all just the product of the subconcious mind of thousands of individuals. But, maybe they exist outside of ourselves. Or maybe since mankind has believed in them for so long, they have became real. All I know for sure, is that they are rarely seen. When they are seen they are disorted, and everybody has seen them differently.

As far as the birth of existence goes, there are thousands of creation stories, and none of them can be fully proven true or untrue. The afterlife has been protrayed as either the wost place for a human to be or the best. And what some people consider the worst, others think is not so bad. And what some people have consider the best, others think is not so good. Nobody has ever retured from the afterlife to tell us.

And if they have (like Jesus, Buddha, ect), then they haven't brought back any solid proof that they were really there. I think a agnostic mind, is the only way to deal with this stuff. It's impossible to prove true or false, so don't even try. Well thats my two cents. I hope you enjoyed.

[James S]

I'm sorry you guys don't know God, but there's obviously nothing more I can do here. You just keep saying stuff like "the Bible is contradictory" without pointing out any verses and I can't just say "no it's not." There's no room for argument in this discussion, and i guess that's the way you want it. If any of you really have a question I'll try to answer it but if you're so uninterested and won't even provide clear cut examples of your gripes then what can I do.

Oh, and there are different denominations of Christianity because different groups practice and worship differently, not because of different views about the religion. I'm a Methodist and we do everything pretty much the same every Sunday. We go by the book, and The Book also of course. We don't take wine at communion, only grape juice. That's the difference. Lutherans on the other hand take wine at communion once a month, so they're half louped by the start of the service, which is why they're a more popular group. Baptist tend to get involved with the church more, they don't just sit idly by. Cathaholics take wine during communion whenever they get a chance but they're pretty stricted about most stuff.

[Warren]

[Paul]

[James S]

[Paul]

[sandmann]

I'm a Catholic and have never once heard that you MUST worship God or Jesus to get into heaven. Never once. Maybe I'm wrong, but if that's true about Catholicism, I'm out man. I believe in God, and Jesus for that matter, but I doubt wholeheartedly that God would say that (as if I know him, it's idealogically speaking).

Moose, does your religion interpret the book literally? Because Catholics use it as a guideline, not as a set of laws. Some fanatical freak probably put in there that you MUST worship God to be in heaven with him. And you're gonna take the word of some fanatic thousands of years ago? Some guy who wanted his mark on the Bible so he put something in there to make heaven exclusive to Christians? Look, that's probably one of the reasons Christianity spreade so far and fast. Because they were the only ones that said if you didn't believe in God or Jesus, you'd be in hell.

Once again my personal view is: everyone is part of God, therefore everyone has a seat next to God in heaven. No matter what. If you think life exists solely as an entrance exam to heaven, I feel pretty sorry for you. I would like to think it's more of a lesson God gave us. And he teaches us the moral when we see him in his house, to make us a productive person in heaven. And tell me why you think I'm wrong Moose. Please.

[James S]

Okay... sin makes your soul dirty. Like jumping in mud. Now most people don't like mud all over them, so they want to be clean. Asking Jesus for forgiveness is like taking a shower when you get muddy... it all goes down the drain. That's forgiveness, getting your soul clean.

I'm not "using" Jesus just to get mud off me. Jesus WANTS us to be clean. "Cleanliness is next to Godliness" and God wants all of us to be near Him 'cause He's a big lonely guy up there all by his self on that big ole chair in his plush gespachi suit.

I myself said that 'I don't think you HAVE to worship Jesus to get into Heaven.' But it's not like you should expect to get to Heaven just by trying your best to be good. Jesus is there to help you be good and why not accept His help. That doesn't mean going to church at all if you don't want to. All it means is that you ask Jesus to protect you and help you when you are weak. Sometimes, however, I enjoy going to youth group just to get a dose of emotion from my pastor (he's quite good at what he does) about religion and how he thinks we should worship God. I don't always agree with Him. He's just a person himself so he can't be right all the time, either. Just... when the time comes, don't expect to get into Heaven when you've never even tried to talk to God. At the Pearly Gates the Devils on one side telling God about all the bad stuff you've done and if you (as my pastor puts it) "have a relationship with Jesus" ... that just means if you accept Him and pray to Him, then He'll be able to defend you against the bad things the Devil's trying to say about you. With His help it's hard to lose. That's all I'm saying: With Jesus it's a thousand, a million times easier because He can help you out.

And you guys keep saying stuff like "Why do we have to love and praise God and Jesus. We don't owe that schmuck anything." Well, head's up. God OWN's Heaven.

[Paul]

i suppose i just look on christianity like a lot of people see microsoft.

it aint good dudes.

moose has said that before though. find the quote someone. it was something about life being crap and our reward for enduring this terrible place is eternity in heaven. shudder.

[sandmann]

[James S]

[Paul]

[James S]