Arms Vs. MIPS

[blahblahblah]

[chriva404]

[Warren]

I compared the MIPS and ARMS together, and there's really no speed difference. I like MIPS better because it sounds cooler, I say each letter, not mips.

[T¹]

This is pathetic (and i'm referring to the threads in the Xengames forum too, not just this). If MIPS was so great then why isn't there any Mips application that outperforms the Arm equivalent? (PocketDivx already runs perfect on Arm so don't try & use that).

It really wouldn't matter even if the Mips cpu was 100 times more powerful than Arm, if there is no software support to back up the speed. The question is really this:
If you are looking to buy a PPC which runs all available games & apps at the fastest possible speed, and provides the best performance in all cpu-intensive software, what would you buy? Answer: An ARM device. End of story.

Even if apps that extensively use 64-bit asm for Mips devices, can run at speeds equivalent to or greater to an Arm device, VERY few developers have the time to devote so much effort (believe me, it is extremely time-consuming) in writing such code. The fact that Mips devices only account for less than 10% of devices in use (and shrinking daily) makes it even more unlikely that a developer would even bother considering it. Normal Mips applications run poorly compared to Arm apps, in fact the only reason that the PocketDivx team went to such effort and lengths was because the pre-64bit asm version was barely even usuable on a Mips device.

In my opinion, even if Mips are hypothetically faster than Arm devices using 64-bit asm, ARM devices are still far superior. Writing Mips asm is a serious pain-in-the-ass compared to Arm asm, even before you get to 64-bit code. This loyalty to Mips devices is very touching, but it reminds me of the Spectrum/C64, GameGear/Atari Lynx, Amiga/PC, Jaguar/Snes arguments of previous years: All the power in the world means jack shit if the software isn't available.[/b]

Oh, and Warren? If you seriously think there's no speed difference between Mips & Arm devices, you really should check out any cpu-intensive app, e.g PQ1 & 2, Chopper Alley, etc. These MIGHT be as fast on a Mips device if they extensively used 64-bit asm, but that's the exact point: They don't.

[Guest]

It doesn't matter which CPU is better. All PocketPCs run ARM and compatible CPUs now. Why did you even bring it up?

[R0B]

[Moose_Master]

[randall]

[Jadam]

and... thats because the bSquare MIPS compiler sucks donkey balls. its so slow and unoptimized. it sux. If we had a better compiler, ohh boy, would you see the performance that we would have!! have you guys seen the E-750, its an E-125 with a 200mhz MIPS VR4131, and everything else the same, now, that baby kills the iPaq or any other ARM based device!!!. too bad casio didnt release it in the US cuz of MS's bullshit decesion to stick with arm. also its battery life is like 10 hours straigh with back lite maxed!!!! Also it has the same gameboy button layout. too bad no US version :cry: You know, if the BE-300 had a better compiler, then you would see our performance in PQ(Well first we would have to do something about that 4mb mem limit) ... plus you cant compare a $500 iPaq to a $150 BE-300 which is ohh so much more hackable than the iPaq, and thats where the fun is! Have you guys seen how EpodsXP looks like?? or KCSkinner??? It looks so much better than PPC... wait a minute... im getting off topic... this is about MIPS Vs. ARM... oops... Also, if arm is so good? why didnt sony use an arm inside of the PS2 why did they use a MIPS, and why have SGI Proffesional workstations been using MIPS processor all these years? sure this mips processor is a low power low cache processor. but the architectures nearly identical[/img]

[T¹]

Umm, i see where you're trying to take this debate but...all this is hypothetical: If there was a better Mips compiler, If the E750 was released, If MS didn't decide to make ARM the standard, etc etc.

And in answer to your other points:

1. So what if the Mips compiler sucks? No compiler is perfect, i still wanna be able to use inline asm with ARM projects!
2. I'm pretty sure that the E750 wouldn't 'kill an ipaq'. Even if you overclock a Mips device to 200mhz, it is still outperformed by an ARM device in any cpu-intensive app e.g PQ, Chopper Alley.
3. Microsoft chose ARM for a reason. Not only is it the best performing cpu type currently in use for PPCs, but future, more powerful iterations will be backwardly compatible with it i.e Xscale.
4. Nobody mentioned the BE300 in this thread, so it wasnt being compared, you were the one mentioning it. Although, i believe it uses the fastest Mips cpu type in any commonly available PPC.
5. EpodsXP, etc are 3rd party skinning apps, not the actual OS gui, that BE300 developers felt obliged to make as the Casio gui is so shit. Normal PPCs have access to even more skinning applications, so that's not a plus point for the BE300, besides being completely irrelevant.

Also, you talk about other derived Mips cpus being used in PS2 & SGI workstations. That's the stupidest thing i've heard, that cannot be compared to a humble Ipaq's StrongARM cpu. If you're gonna do that, you might as well compare the EM500's Mips cpu with the Xscale, which is an ARM cpu

Once again, this discussion is pointless: WHO CARES even if Mips was technically more powerful? NO SOFTWARE is available that harnesses this power, so it's all a load of meaningless chat. Personally, i think some people are a little too freakily attached to their Mips cpu in their PPCs. What cpu in PPCs comes out on top on ALL real-world applications? ARM. Which is the most supported PPC cpu type by developers & manufacturers? ARM. What cpu type will still be in widespread use in a couple of years? ARM (StrongARM & Xscale).

Face reality, Mips always has and always will be the second best for performance when compared to Arm, for all PPC users. Only an idiot would buy a Mips device hoping for the maximum performance currently available from a PPC. Pointless discussion, irritates me, please drop it. Please.

[superman]

I wonder how AMDs new MIPS processor will compare to this generation of ARMs and next generation XScales, and will MS let OEMs use it in the next gen PPCs. Since the processor used in the PPC2000 Cassiopeia line is over 3 yrs. old, I think its safe to say it holds its own against ARM considering its age.

[gartogg708]

[T¹]

Seeing as you appear to be a betting man, would you care to place a bet that ARM devices are still in use in the next 1-2 years? There are currently millions of ARM PocketPC's in use, with more being sold daily. Xscale devices are also on the verge of shipping which look set to be leading the next-generation of PocketPCs. You quite rightly point out the speed at which new processer advancements occur, but the massive user base of StrongARM devices, coupled with the major interest in Xscale technology means that they will STILL be in widespread use, even if a new & improved cpu technology did emerge.

Hell, even Palm are soon to be releasing their ARM-based devices, which they announced to be a consistent part of their product line-up for at least the next 2 years. So with that fact alone, i would say it is a safe bet that ARM devices, whether StrongARM or Xscale, are still going to be in widespread use in 2 years time (unless people come to their senses and realise that Palms are crap...).

Actually, i hope that people don't just rush out and buy the new technology just for the sake of it. If you need the power for playing games, etc it's obviously gonna be worth it, but i've met a couple of people who use an Ipaq just for storing contacts, keeping appointments and that's about it! What a waste...

[gartogg708]

[randall]